I think Joss and the gang have killed me with their brains! The Big Bad twist on top of the one for the Buffy S8 comics has left me completely and utterly at the whim of the real Big Bad JOSS WHEDON AND HIS EVIL GENIUS BRAIN.
Well, everyone is pretty much doomed, *blank* played them well. It’s gonna be about survival now provided Echo doesn’t pull something like Alpha and simply kill everything. Just saying violence is a reasonable course of action at this point.
Yes B, violence seems like a reasonable course of action. Oh, you mean the characters. I thought you meant us viewers. I mean, WTH?? I was floored and stunned; had to get up and scream a couple times; walked about in a daze afterward. In other words, I loved it!
I sat and stared, jaw dropped at the screen for a good minute before i could scream! Then walked around dazed, and realised the only people i could talk to about my confusion was…. no-one! no-one else i know has seen it! so frustrating
I must say I was shocked but not surprised by one of this episodes moments yet totally left with my expression fixed in shock at the very end. Great writers not only entertain us, they bring to life characters we grow to love. I care about what has happened to these fictions made real and can not wait to see how it all ends.
Although I wish season 2 wasn’t the end, maybe it will rise again like Firefly did when Serenity was made.
No matter how long a Joss Whedon season is, whether it be barely one season, a crammed 2nd season, or a mighty seven seasons, he never fails to add twists that come out of nowhere.
There were two shocks watching last nights episode. One was the reveal, and the other was immediately after a declaration of love.
Brilliant all the way!
In the episode 10 discussions where everyone was speculating who Clyde 2.0 is and when they were speculating that Boyd was Clyde (though he wasn’t) it did trigger a little bit of maybe he might be bad, (cause thats what Joss does as ppl have said). So when it was revealed Boyd was the original founder of Rossum, it wasn’t completely shocking but still shocking, LOL. Kinda sad that he’s actually bad since he has been portrayed throughout the series as the righteous one.
This episode was on the quality level of LOST. Actually it really reminded me of a good LOST episode. There were the flashbacks bringing light into the darkness. Then you got the cute relationsship between Bennett and Topher, you are really happy for those two and then *bam*. Shocker, reminded me of the death of Libby in LOST, poor Hurley and now poor Topher. And then of course the big, shocking cliffhanger at the end, where one of the main characters is revealed to be the main villian.
It was great and entertaining.
Well, it’s sad, that this show ends now, but on the other hand, if they wouldn’t have known, that they were going to be cancelled, they couldn’t go with such a big BOOM. Can’t wait for the finale.
I’m going to believe that it’s all a case of crazy remote wipes and Dr. Saunders still being REALLY bitter against Topher. Yes. That’s what I’m going to believe.
I so desperately want to believe that, because if I believe the other possibility then it’s going to feel like the entire last two years has been a total lie and my brain, to quote Eddie Izzard, “will slowly collapse like a flan in the cupboard”.
I’m all sorts of confused as to how Joss is going to make this make sense in…one, two episodes?
And let’s face it; we all should’ve known it was going to happen to Bennett. Exihibit A: Willow and Tara. Exhibit B: Fred and Wesley. The prosecution rests.
Final Question: Does this still make “Epitaph One” canon?
Nothing we have seen so far contradicts Epitaph One. Some of it has been expanded on, that’s all.
Same as with Caroline’s memories of that last encounter with Bennett (when she lost her arm). Everything we saw from Bennett’s perspective was true. It’s just that the context we got from Caroline’s more complete memory changed the way we interpreted her actions.
Bennett saw it as desertion. Caroline was trying to save her.
Joss Whedon’s brain has indeed killed me. I think I began crying after what happened following the declaration. And the ending was just WTF?!?!?! I feel betrayed. I also wish FOX would stop canceling good shows!! This is something I want to keep watching.
ok, here’s my thoughts: (spoiler alert!)
A) holy motherfu-!
B) Topher and Bennett are so adorable, and so inevitably, one of them has to die. Because Joss likes to kill off couples. So in a sense, Bennett’s doom was sealed when she and Topher had that adorable kiss.
C) Whiskey/Saunders is not a sleeper. They thought so in the show, and I know a lot of others do too, but I really doubt it. If she were, she would have also killed Topher when he walked in. She was probably acting on Boyd’s orders when she killed Bennett. So I’m wondering- how the hell does she wind up back in the house in Epitaph 1? Do they wipe away her memories of Boyd? Is all forgiven in the face of the apocalypse?
D) So Topher did take away Paul’s love for Echo. Well, it was a little predictable, and very Joss-like. *sigh* maybe in the last few episodes his love for her will transcend his brain?
E) Oh hey, Mellie’s back!! that’s so cute!! anyone else think she’s gonna die?
G) Holy motherfu-! I might need to rewatch the entire series now. Thanks Big Boyd
I desperately want to believe that Boyd is yet another one of those guys who is trying to bring down Rossum from the inside–from the very core, even–so that all of his paternal caring for Echo still reads as genuine. Especially given all of his little commentaries during season one to Adelle and Topher that seem to suggest that he was against the whole thing.
Dr. Saunders is still really bitter towards Topher, for lack of a much better adjective. In that respect, I can understand why she’d wound Topher in such a deep, deep way–especially since she shot Bennett in the head, removing any chance of Topher saving her personality. I’m also wondering if Dr. Saunders’s decision and little speech might point to her original personality? I wish we’d get even SOME kind of backstory about her…even if it’s a little bit. >.>
I agree with you on Boyd’s paternal love for Echo- I think that it’s genuine and he really cares for her. and you’re right- it would be great to get some of Whiskey’s backstory. (hopefully Joss will change his mind about the comics and do some Dollhouse comics)
Even if it’s a limited run or an anthology of origin stories or something. Maybe a little more back story on Adelle, too, but that’s largely because I’m still convinced that Adelle’s old job is a total shoutout to “Repo! The Genetic Opera”. XD
Joss and Co would do something like that to poor Topher, wouldn’t they? And if this is the start of his steady descent into his state during “Epitaph One”…
Wow, my mind is blown. I’m confused. When Echo went upstairs to see “rossum” he said that body was one of many he used, was he referring to boyd? I too feel Saunders is not a sleeper. I feel she is a collaborator who will be screwed over by boyd at the end, seeing as how Joss doesn’t like couples.
Which makes you wonder….? oh well, not tmz here, lol.
My brain hurtz! It is now tempting to go back and watch every single episode for hints about Boyd. But I’m maybe going with the boydy was borrowed. Maybe we still don’t know the “real” backstory of Boyd. Maybe he was a righteous cop shot in the line of duty and resurrected as an imprint in his own bod (a la Ballard) or another. The whole point seems to be none of us are what we seem or who we think we are. I vote more surprises to come.
Man, if the season had opened with episodes like these I can’t imagine that it would’ve been canceled.
I don’t understand. Why did Boyd plant Caroline in the dollhouse? Did he want to bring it down? What was the point? Guh.
I did not see that coming AT ALL, not even close.
I loved the Caroline and Bennett scenes, the way Caroline really did care. It was interesting. I usually don’t like the Echo/Caroline plot lines, but this was definitely interesting.
I basically was flailing and gasping all the way through. What a way to end the series. Go out with a bang!
Haven’t see it yet, because my family makes watches it Sat. night on hulu, but these spoilers make me excited!
Also was I the only one who noticed that Dollhouse (yep, the show canceled because Fox says no one is watching) is yahoo.com’s 3rd most popular search today? *mutters angrily about the unfairness of our world*
I am thinking about what Boyd said to Caroline, about how she was going to save us all. I wonder whether that points to Boyd not really having evil goals.
Imaginary Timeline:
1. Boyd and Clive meet in college. Clive runs ideas behind the imprinting tech by Boyd, Boyd sees the opportunity to make some money, so they go into business together.
2. Boyd comes to realize the full consequences of the tech for society, decides that it has to be stopped. But by now Rossum is a big corporation with lots of people who know about the tech. If Boyd just shuts the company down the former employees are going to just go off and recreate the tech themselves. The cat is out of the bag at this point. Plus even if he could silence everyone who knows about the tech, what is to stop some genius (like Topher or Bennett) from just figuring it out on their own? To stop the tech he has to find a way to beat it, not just keep it secret.
3. So Boyd needs to use Rossum to develop a way to beat the tech (of the kind that they talk about in Epitaph One). Because everyone else at Rossum would be against him at this he has to secure his position on top. Bye Clive. Hello ambitionless copies of Clive.
4. Somehow Boyd finds out that Caroline has a built in resistance to being wiped (perhaps a brain scan sometime before the failed bombing that Caroline and Bennett try. Where the hell do they get all these brain scans anyway? My guess is a conspiracy involving MRI technicians getting kickbacks), so that she always keeps some trace of her personality. He figures that she is the key to the cure, i.e. the way to save us all from the tech that he helped create.
5. Boyd sends Caroline to the LA dollhouse. After the Alpha incident he decides to watch over her personally, to make sure that nothing else goes wrong. From then on it is all about helping Echo develop, keeping his own cover, and building alliances with key people at LA to help keep other elements of Rossum at bay.
So on this imaginary timeline Boyd and Clive create something they can’t control, and Boyd is working on damage control, and is interested in Caroline/Echo as the way to fix everything.
Problems:
1. Clive in the attic doesn’t seem all that cool with world domination, so there wouldn’t be a need to lock him up.
Response: Change of heart in the attic. Before he was a prick, which is why all the copies of him in the real world are pricks.
2. Why the hell have Whiskey kill Bennett?
Response: Bennett wants to hurt Caroline, and Boyd doesn’t like that. Also maybe he didn’t have Whiskey do it.
3. Why does he allow Adele to twist in the wind, having to eventually give Topher’s invention to Rossum to get her office back?
Response: His cover is so deep at this point that he can’t effectively control Rossum anymore.
4. Why put himself in harm’s way so much as Echo’s handler? After all he nearly died more than once.
Response: I don’t know. It seems like he could have kept Caroline in Tucson and helped her develop in a more controlled environment. Maybe she needed to face real danger to help her get grow.
I’m with you on this. I desperately want to believe that Boyd’s motives are pure. I also think it’s interesting that the next episode is called “The Hollow Men”. Referring to Boyd and ‘Clive’ perhaps?
BTW, we know about the brain scans. In Epitaph One, when we flashback to Adele showing Topher around the office for the first time, she mentions that Rossum makes machines for medical brain scans, and that these machines take copies of every brain scanned and forward them to Rossum.
There is only one theory I came come up with to support your one of Boyd being good and trying to bring down the corporation.
It is to do with Clive 2.0; original Clive said they made a copy of him but took out some human elements like ambition.
In ‘epitath’ the motivation behind mass remote imprinting through the phoneline seems unclear, in fact it seems darn right illogical.
I felt after the attic that clive 2.0 might be in charge. if you remove ambition from a person you remove other things like their perspective of themselves in the world and even preservation.
If you look at Bennett and Topher you can behaps see parralells of who clive 2.0 is; a genius with deficient human and social concepts.
Both topher and betnnet really lack ambition beyond a concept of testing their own genius, both lack the ability to connect with people, and both for a large part lack a conscience; they don’t see they’re work in any moral context and do things to see if they can not think if they should. Adele i think said Rossum choose Topher because is morally ambiguous or corrupted. Although Topher has changes recently because does possess these human qualities, perhaps something Clive 2.0 doesn’t, like a sleeper vs an assassin; an assassin is an ass so difficult to reason with they called them it twice while a sleeper simple cannot be reasoned with or reach on any level.
Clive 2.0 would be the ideal mastermind behind a corporation which seems to push scientific research for the sack of scientific research.
Of course the fact their was another clive in the office completely defuncts my theory. Not a 100% but 80%; the first clive could have been an anomoly and the others have been perfected or the first was give ambition instead of taken away.
I for one did NOT see that happening at all, And once again thanx gossi for giving me that cryptic thought a couple of posts ago about all my questions being answered (*Might i add in the biggest way i could of never thought was possible). My heart broke when i saw Boyd in Caroline’s memories as THE BIG BAD. For some reason i thought Bennet was coming into the Dollhouse to terrorize Echo some more…but this blew my mind. As for Dr. Saunders? WTF! Doesnt that go against everything a doctor stands for? She packed heat and did u see Bennet’s face when she realized how much she adores Topher? Almost child-like. I nearly teared cuz all these revelations broke my heart. Next week needs to come now or never cuz i need to know all the answers ASAP
What about the “disruptor” that Topher created? It affected dolls for like 50 feet in all directions, and they had to use it on everyone in the Dollhouse after Alpha sabotaged the chair. Was Boyd not around when Topher used it? Or had he already modified it to only “fire” in one direction per Bennett’s suggestions?
Also, I loved Topher’s line to Bennett about having a crush on her even when he thought she was a guy. “This is way better.” Too funny!
no, I’m pretty sure Boyd was in the room when Topher tested the disruptor, and when it was going in all directions. which means he can’t be a doll, or maybe a different kind of doll (although I doubt that)
they always said that things aren’t what they seem (Adele said that initially) and with Jossverse we know that’s true. There is something about Boyd’s motivation to keep Echo and Caroline alive. He probably was the one who arranged the added material in the wipe when Echo and Paul were fighting. He had access to Whiskey for at least 3 weeks if he wanted to make her a sleeper. On her own Whiskey’s always hated Topher and the best way to hurt Topher is to kill Bennett. I hate it b/c I still see Fred. Even with that line about wanting more time. Thankfully we have 2 more episodes (tell me it’s 2) Half the time these shows end in the middle or after season one and we don’t get some kind of closure. Joss is a decent guy to give us some wonderful shows this year. Wondering what the next show will be. Maybe Firefly resurected (with the preacher and Wash).
ok i have a theory, i rewatched the episode and i KNOW who the clyde 2.0 is? Its not Claire, she is in love with Boyd and she hates Topher. I think, and it fits into my other theory. I think, its Adelle and why? Clyde one is english. Check. He follows orders without question. Check. Notice how during the flashback that Adelle got a call on her cell phone sayin, “The head of Rossum wants to meet you.” Sending her up with the classic, Adelle smile. Notice how the office looks like Adelle’s? The liquor bottle, and how he asks Caroline if she wants some tea like Adelle asks the clients? All the clues are there, the elevator reaching her office in the same fashion. But i think boyd didnt take into the account of Adelle developing a conscience just like Clyde did. Even ep1 stuff fits into my theory, why is Caroline so mad at Adelle if everyone seems nice after she risks her neck. All i gotta say is wow…i would of never thought this out if i didnt re-watch the ep and notice the clues
Every time I think I have the whole puzzle figured out, I’m wrong. I know that I’m not the sharpest watcher when it comes to picking up on subtle foreshadowing hints — for instance, I was one of the few who was shocked when Mellie turned out to be a doll in season one — but I still thought that the final reveal in “Getting Closer” was completely unexpected; I still can’t think of any hints that would have led me to think that Boyd was a bad guy.
I can’t wait for “The Hollow Men,” but at the same time the second season has gotten so damn good that I’m having this fear that I’m going to break down and cry at the end of “Epitaph Two” because I want it to continue so much.
Well played, “Dollhouse.”
I have to say, this show is a lot to take in. I too was shocked with the two *dramatic* moments. When Boyd stepped out from the shadows, I did gasp.
And, when Bennett was shot, I jumped back. That truly was a surprise.
I do like this show. However, I can see why it was cancelled. It’s a bit complicated and if you just happen to catch it without seeing any episode before, you can be really lost.
I don’t see how Dollhouse can have a happy ending. I think that the human race is doomed in the shows universe.
If I wrote the last episode, I’d somehow have the doomed future corrected and have Echo done away with. Caroline would be restored and with her waking up, saying, “Did I fall asleep?” Come on. The show has GOT to end with that line.
Sorry, but is anyone else feeling that they totally eliminated the history they established for Caroline in Season 1? What happened to the animal rights circle and her boyfriend? Wasn’t it on the trip with him that he was killed, and she was captured and turned into a doll?
no, she ran away from the hospital in the last flashback in that episode. rewatch it (1X07). she wasn’t captured by Rossum after her boyfriend was killed, it was later.
I thought the same way, until I remembered the episode Wrdo mentions. The way information was revealed in earlier episodes made it seem like she was captured immediately after her escape from the hospital, but I guess she was able to hide from them better than expected.
I think she may have been captured at that point, as they had the files on her. It doesn’t mean she got away. Adelle actually says in the flashbacks, something along the lines of “I thought we took care of her?”
I’ll admit, I really didn’t like Dollhouse beyond the first half of the first season. The characters are a bit one dimentional and the dialogue is so simplistic. On top of that, while the plot was intriguing, it wasn’t enough to compensate for the other drawbacks.
However, if the whole series had been like the last four or five episodes with all sorts of awesome plot and interesting visuals, I would have made sure to watch it! It’s too bad that they pulled out all the punches when they know they are not going to continue because I don’t think it’d be cancelled if they had done this from the beginning.
Epitaph one hinted the apoaclpse happens
because the technolgy gets Into worse
hands.
I think Whisky was recruited by Boyd.November had to have a code to activate.When bennebt activated Perrin he killed anyone.
The executives at Rossum delt with the Clyde imprinted guys.Boyd ran things through him.
With the timeline of Carolane remember after her boyfriend was killed she escaped from hospital.It IS fairly obvious she went to work bringing them down.There may be more next week to explain how she went from there to the room with Adelle.
Personally, I don’t believe that Boyd in the end will prove to be evil. Where would that leave Clive Ambrose (the head of Rossum)?
Think of it this way: Boyd might have been evil up to the point where he betrayed Clyde. But in face of the projection’s for the world’s fate Clyde was making as a human computer, Boyd might have been turned around.
Yet, as time passed the corporation evolved and Boyd was ousted from control, leaving to him the only option of helping to bring Rossum and the dollhouse down by discovering immunization to the imprinting technology.
Caroline seems to have the necessary predisposition and so Boyd sends her to the Dollhouse in order to set things in motion, all the while keeping a low profile on his true intention.
This would also explain why Boyd in spite of being the co-founder of Rossum seems to fear the company’s reaction to him attempting to kill Clive Ambros.
If that’s the case, Dr. Saunders/Whiskey obviously was not programmed as a sleeper by Boyd but by someone inside Rossum. She might have wiped herself after the incident to prevent the sleeper from getting triggered and to forget having murdered (as seen in Epitaph One).
Just a thought about Saunders and why I don’t think she’s a sleeper, but rather in cahoots with Boyd : Rewatch “Vows” and the scene between her and Topher, knowing now who the head of Rossem is; she also leaves a note for Boyd when she leaves saying “I’m running out of excuses”
Why would she kill Bennet ? 21 Mins into the last ep. – in a flashback – Whiskey is being treated by the late Dr. Saunders. Dom is telling Adelle that her office had been broken into and 2 files taken, one Bennets. Adelle says “Rumor has it the man at the top selected her himself”
To me implying that Bennet had also met Boyd as the head of the company, and that Saunders had to get rid of her before she could identify Boyd (They are never in a scene together)
I’m a loyal Whedonite, thru and thru. I love the twists, though I kinda saw Bennett’s death coming (wasn’t sure if it was going to be in the 2nd to last or final episode.) When couples are happy, he likes to break them apart, no matter how short the happiness is. Boyd as Rossum, “Excellent!” {said as Mr. Burns.} I can only hope this series is resurrected like Firefly was w/ Serenity. Though some questions can be left unanswered – making room for comics & fanfics, etc. – it’d be nice to wrap up some of everything. Whedonite for life!
Dolly, now that you mention it… Clive did remind me of Topher. Hmm. If Topher turns out to be the mastermind behind it all… that’d be okay with me. But, in this case, I’d still want him dead and the doom of humanity saved.
I have several theories. 1) Caroline is a doll…or perhaps she is a dollified version of her real self (think the Sen.) created by Boyd. 2) Adelle is the person actually trying to bring down Rossum…She is sort of the wild card, and she will be crucial in what happens next. 3) Dr. Saunders killed Bennette because she hates Topher that badly, or 4) Bennette was also trying to bring down the house, and would have realized that “Caroline” was a doll…therefore needing to be shoot in front of Topher.
With the help of all these comments, of course… =)
1. Boyd is trying to fix things up and find a cure to resist imprinting to stop what he started.
2. Saunders got close to Boyd and is his love interest and hasn’t gotten killed yet…We know Joss likes to kill of couples. I think she has been imprinted by someone to keep a close watch on the Dollhouse and Boyd, and since Bennet is not in one scene with him, had to kill him so she wouldn’t realize what was going on.
3. Adelle knows about Boyd’s plan and is helping him. Boyd got her to get him to leave so he could get away from Claire (She wanted more time to spend with him…To watch him and kill him perhaps?) to be safe. He had to make it seem like he didn’t know who Claire was, so he wouldn’t get caught or killed by her. After all, we know he didn’t leave in the end, he stayed over at the Dollhouse to keep an eye on Echo and assure she remains alive and gets Caroline inside of her. There’s no way Boyd wanted to kill her or hurt her. He would’ve done it easily before…And if not, she kills him instantly next episode after she gets out of the chair anyway. I believe Caroline knows about the behind-the-scenes work Boyd is doing and joined the Dollhouse to help them prevent the apocalypse after being convinced by Boyd that this is what they want to do. Echo knows about what’s going in the Dollhouse, and Caroline knows that Boyd’s cause is the right one, so when they join, they will realize the entire plan, without any need for it to be explained in a cliche manner to the viewers, as we will see it too through their eyes…And, joining these two pieces (minds) was the only way of uncovering the plan, so it would be kept perfectly safe.
Also, I was thinking, on the side…What if Claire is behind it all? What if she’s just pretending to be imprinted, if she isn’t for real, or has been imprinted with the memories and personality of the person responsible for every trouble so far?
Oh, and as for Bennet being dead…They can always bring her back easily. In fact, this show is perfect for pulling this kind of thing off…They could just say that someone implanted a chip in her brain and she was transmitting information through to a server from her brain…And they can have her up-to-date with all her memories with Topher at the LA Dollhouse, brought back to life in another body…Or perhaps Rossum found a way to clone and grow individuals quickly to their desired age and imprint them (to make an army perhaps? Sounds plausible now with what’s been going on in the last season…), and thus bring her back? It would be so easy to pull of!
Anyway, I think Boyd’s just trying to fix everything up…Since we saw in Epitaph one that what happened there was what we feared…Maybe there’s another force behind this, and it’s not Boyd who’s the “mastermind” or the one responsible? What about Harding, for example? Or what if…What happened in Epitaph one was inside the mind-computer that is attic? What if what happened there wasn’t reality, but the nightmare Echo fled from in the attic?
In the end…The entire series could be a dream, ala Life on Mars (the US version) or a dream made up of people in the attic, who are the dolls (or who make up the entire cast)?
So…yeah, I go in too many directions when thinking. xD In the end, I don’t think I got it figured out that much…These are all just different theories.
I’m starting to think the Epitaph episodes are taking place at the same time as episode 12…And that Caroline/Echo destroys the Attic and everyone wakes up from the mainframe individually due to their effors in Epitaph 1 and 2…And they realize they’ve found Caroline after all!
Dude…This is the most twisted show. Why oh why did it start out slow…I think if they let us get a glimpse of things to come and then went slow and built to this ratings would of been higher. I watch all the big sci-fi mystery shows and this one has made me chew my nails like no other. I just hope Joss decides to write this as a graphic novel someday like Angel so I can keep on enjoying it after fox terminates.
Ok..so maybe i might be wrong about Adelle being clive 2.0 but doent his office when he spoke to Caroline, look like hers? It cant be a coincidence. Lipman from the DC dollhouse had a different stylle in his office so it cant be a company thing…Another theory, it would b hillarious if Caroline turned out to be clive…think no ambition? Caroline said since the beginning that she doesnt have a set major because it eliminates everything else….sounds like no ambition to me.
my theory as to why whiskey/ dr Saunders killed bennet – simply to stop her bringing caroline back, if echo stops the end of the world then she would be number one in everyone’s eyes. bennet was the only who could bring caroline back, at that point topher had no idea.
also her hate of topher is why she didn’t just shoot bennet straight away, she waited it out, till he came back.
but it think boyd used whiskey – brainwashed her it’s the only way the group would welcome her back for the Epitaph episodes.
i do like the idea still that all that has happend is in the attic.
Don’t think this works. For one thing there is no reason to assume that Tohper didn’t know how to do it at that point. He does finish pretty quickly after Bennett dies.
The big problem with this theory though is that there is pretty compelling evidence that Boyd wants Caroline back or is at least ok with it. He could have prevented her from coming back by stopping the imprint after he breaks the neck of the Rossum thug, but he didn’t.
Dollhouse what?
Dollverse is an award winning website which takes you inside Joss Whedon and Eliza Dushku's FOX TV series, DOLLHOUSE. It started as a 5 minute a day thing, then we got a bit lost in the Dollverse.
DOLLHOUSE is a multi-award winning television series about getting lost down the rabbit hole of society and self, which airs FRIDAY, 9/8c on FOX - and across the world.
I think Joss and the gang have killed me with their brains! The Big Bad twist on top of the one for the Buffy S8 comics has left me completely and utterly at the whim of the real Big Bad JOSS WHEDON AND HIS EVIL GENIUS BRAIN.
soooo speechless.
all i can ask is why?????????? and hope that i’ll get an answer next episode!
Well, everyone is pretty much doomed, *blank* played them well. It’s gonna be about survival now provided Echo doesn’t pull something like Alpha and simply kill everything. Just saying violence is a reasonable course of action at this point.
Yes B, violence seems like a reasonable course of action. Oh, you mean the characters. I thought you meant us viewers. I mean, WTH?? I was floored and stunned; had to get up and scream a couple times; walked about in a daze afterward. In other words, I loved it!
I sat and stared, jaw dropped at the screen for a good minute before i could scream! Then walked around dazed, and realised the only people i could talk to about my confusion was…. no-one! no-one else i know has seen it! so frustrating
My question is: who exactly is *blank* playing? Echo and the gang? Rossum? The rest of the world?
I need next weeks episode NOW!!!!
I must say I was shocked but not surprised by one of this episodes moments yet totally left with my expression fixed in shock at the very end. Great writers not only entertain us, they bring to life characters we grow to love. I care about what has happened to these fictions made real and can not wait to see how it all ends.
Although I wish season 2 wasn’t the end, maybe it will rise again like Firefly did when Serenity was made.
No matter how long a Joss Whedon season is, whether it be barely one season, a crammed 2nd season, or a mighty seven seasons, he never fails to add twists that come out of nowhere.
There were two shocks watching last nights episode. One was the reveal, and the other was immediately after a declaration of love.
Brilliant all the way!
I never saw that coming, not in a million years or more.
Got to go back and see Epitaph 1 – today!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the episode 10 discussions where everyone was speculating who Clyde 2.0 is and when they were speculating that Boyd was Clyde (though he wasn’t) it did trigger a little bit of maybe he might be bad, (cause thats what Joss does as ppl have said). So when it was revealed Boyd was the original founder of Rossum, it wasn’t completely shocking but still shocking, LOL. Kinda sad that he’s actually bad since he has been portrayed throughout the series as the righteous one.
This episode was on the quality level of LOST. Actually it really reminded me of a good LOST episode. There were the flashbacks bringing light into the darkness. Then you got the cute relationsship between Bennett and Topher, you are really happy for those two and then *bam*. Shocker, reminded me of the death of Libby in LOST, poor Hurley and now poor Topher. And then of course the big, shocking cliffhanger at the end, where one of the main characters is revealed to be the main villian.
It was great and entertaining.
Well, it’s sad, that this show ends now, but on the other hand, if they wouldn’t have known, that they were going to be cancelled, they couldn’t go with such a big BOOM. Can’t wait for the finale.
Why? Why? Why, did they shoot themselves in the foot and kill Summer off the series? Pure insanity.
Because there are only a couple of episodes left so it’s not like it really matters and it served to shock and interest people now.
I’m going to believe that it’s all a case of crazy remote wipes and Dr. Saunders still being REALLY bitter against Topher. Yes. That’s what I’m going to believe.
I so desperately want to believe that, because if I believe the other possibility then it’s going to feel like the entire last two years has been a total lie and my brain, to quote Eddie Izzard, “will slowly collapse like a flan in the cupboard”.
I’m all sorts of confused as to how Joss is going to make this make sense in…one, two episodes?
And let’s face it; we all should’ve known it was going to happen to Bennett. Exihibit A: Willow and Tara. Exhibit B: Fred and Wesley. The prosecution rests.
Final Question: Does this still make “Epitaph One” canon?
you forgot exhibit C: Wash and Zoe
And I suppose it goes back even all the way to Buffy and Angel. Though he got better. Sort of.
Nothing we have seen so far contradicts Epitaph One. Some of it has been expanded on, that’s all.
Same as with Caroline’s memories of that last encounter with Bennett (when she lost her arm). Everything we saw from Bennett’s perspective was true. It’s just that the context we got from Caroline’s more complete memory changed the way we interpreted her actions.
Bennett saw it as desertion. Caroline was trying to save her.
Astute observation.
For me it was a long serie of:
Uh???
What??????
Say again???????
WTF???!!!
I am more and more convinced I am sitting in the chair whant I watch that show!
My memories are sooooo messed up now…
Can’t wait for next week to have my brain turned even more upside down.
Joss Whedon’s brain has indeed killed me. I think I began crying after what happened following the declaration. And the ending was just WTF?!?!?! I feel betrayed. I also wish FOX would stop canceling good shows!! This is something I want to keep watching.
ok, here’s my thoughts: (spoiler alert!)
A) holy motherfu-!
B) Topher and Bennett are so adorable, and so inevitably, one of them has to die. Because Joss likes to kill off couples. So in a sense, Bennett’s doom was sealed when she and Topher had that adorable kiss.
C) Whiskey/Saunders is not a sleeper. They thought so in the show, and I know a lot of others do too, but I really doubt it. If she were, she would have also killed Topher when he walked in. She was probably acting on Boyd’s orders when she killed Bennett. So I’m wondering- how the hell does she wind up back in the house in Epitaph 1? Do they wipe away her memories of Boyd? Is all forgiven in the face of the apocalypse?
D) So Topher did take away Paul’s love for Echo. Well, it was a little predictable, and very Joss-like. *sigh* maybe in the last few episodes his love for her will transcend his brain?
E) Oh hey, Mellie’s back!! that’s so cute!! anyone else think she’s gonna die?
G) Holy motherfu-! I might need to rewatch the entire series now. Thanks Big Boyd
I desperately want to believe that Boyd is yet another one of those guys who is trying to bring down Rossum from the inside–from the very core, even–so that all of his paternal caring for Echo still reads as genuine. Especially given all of his little commentaries during season one to Adelle and Topher that seem to suggest that he was against the whole thing.
Dr. Saunders is still really bitter towards Topher, for lack of a much better adjective. In that respect, I can understand why she’d wound Topher in such a deep, deep way–especially since she shot Bennett in the head, removing any chance of Topher saving her personality. I’m also wondering if Dr. Saunders’s decision and little speech might point to her original personality? I wish we’d get even SOME kind of backstory about her…even if it’s a little bit. >.>
I agree with you on Boyd’s paternal love for Echo- I think that it’s genuine and he really cares for her. and you’re right- it would be great to get some of Whiskey’s backstory. (hopefully Joss will change his mind about the comics and do some Dollhouse comics)
Even if it’s a limited run or an anthology of origin stories or something. Maybe a little more back story on Adelle, too, but that’s largely because I’m still convinced that Adelle’s old job is a total shoutout to “Repo! The Genetic Opera”. XD
Wow.
But guys, remember that at least the press releases credit Summer Glau for the Final Two, too…
flashbacks?
I’m betting that Topher hallucinates her.
ooh!! good idea!!!
Joss and Co would do something like that to poor Topher, wouldn’t they? And if this is the start of his steady descent into his state during “Epitaph One”…
Wow, my mind is blown. I’m confused. When Echo went upstairs to see “rossum” he said that body was one of many he used, was he referring to boyd? I too feel Saunders is not a sleeper. I feel she is a collaborator who will be screwed over by boyd at the end, seeing as how Joss doesn’t like couples.
Which makes you wonder….? oh well, not tmz here, lol.
My brain hurtz! It is now tempting to go back and watch every single episode for hints about Boyd. But I’m maybe going with the boydy was borrowed. Maybe we still don’t know the “real” backstory of Boyd. Maybe he was a righteous cop shot in the line of duty and resurrected as an imprint in his own bod (a la Ballard) or another. The whole point seems to be none of us are what we seem or who we think we are. I vote more surprises to come.
Man, if the season had opened with episodes like these I can’t imagine that it would’ve been canceled.
I don’t understand. Why did Boyd plant Caroline in the dollhouse? Did he want to bring it down? What was the point? Guh.
I did not see that coming AT ALL, not even close.
I loved the Caroline and Bennett scenes, the way Caroline really did care. It was interesting. I usually don’t like the Echo/Caroline plot lines, but this was definitely interesting.
I basically was flailing and gasping all the way through. What a way to end the series. Go out with a bang!
I can’t believe I have to wait a whole week!
Haven’t see it yet, because my family makes watches it Sat. night on hulu, but these spoilers make me excited!
Also was I the only one who noticed that Dollhouse (yep, the show canceled because Fox says no one is watching) is yahoo.com’s 3rd most popular search today? *mutters angrily about the unfairness of our world*
I am thinking about what Boyd said to Caroline, about how she was going to save us all. I wonder whether that points to Boyd not really having evil goals.
Imaginary Timeline:
1. Boyd and Clive meet in college. Clive runs ideas behind the imprinting tech by Boyd, Boyd sees the opportunity to make some money, so they go into business together.
2. Boyd comes to realize the full consequences of the tech for society, decides that it has to be stopped. But by now Rossum is a big corporation with lots of people who know about the tech. If Boyd just shuts the company down the former employees are going to just go off and recreate the tech themselves. The cat is out of the bag at this point. Plus even if he could silence everyone who knows about the tech, what is to stop some genius (like Topher or Bennett) from just figuring it out on their own? To stop the tech he has to find a way to beat it, not just keep it secret.
3. So Boyd needs to use Rossum to develop a way to beat the tech (of the kind that they talk about in Epitaph One). Because everyone else at Rossum would be against him at this he has to secure his position on top. Bye Clive. Hello ambitionless copies of Clive.
4. Somehow Boyd finds out that Caroline has a built in resistance to being wiped (perhaps a brain scan sometime before the failed bombing that Caroline and Bennett try. Where the hell do they get all these brain scans anyway? My guess is a conspiracy involving MRI technicians getting kickbacks), so that she always keeps some trace of her personality. He figures that she is the key to the cure, i.e. the way to save us all from the tech that he helped create.
5. Boyd sends Caroline to the LA dollhouse. After the Alpha incident he decides to watch over her personally, to make sure that nothing else goes wrong. From then on it is all about helping Echo develop, keeping his own cover, and building alliances with key people at LA to help keep other elements of Rossum at bay.
So on this imaginary timeline Boyd and Clive create something they can’t control, and Boyd is working on damage control, and is interested in Caroline/Echo as the way to fix everything.
Problems:
1. Clive in the attic doesn’t seem all that cool with world domination, so there wouldn’t be a need to lock him up.
Response: Change of heart in the attic. Before he was a prick, which is why all the copies of him in the real world are pricks.
2. Why the hell have Whiskey kill Bennett?
Response: Bennett wants to hurt Caroline, and Boyd doesn’t like that. Also maybe he didn’t have Whiskey do it.
3. Why does he allow Adele to twist in the wind, having to eventually give Topher’s invention to Rossum to get her office back?
Response: His cover is so deep at this point that he can’t effectively control Rossum anymore.
4. Why put himself in harm’s way so much as Echo’s handler? After all he nearly died more than once.
Response: I don’t know. It seems like he could have kept Caroline in Tucson and helped her develop in a more controlled environment. Maybe she needed to face real danger to help her get grow.
I’m with you on this. I desperately want to believe that Boyd’s motives are pure. I also think it’s interesting that the next episode is called “The Hollow Men”. Referring to Boyd and ‘Clive’ perhaps?
BTW, we know about the brain scans. In Epitaph One, when we flashback to Adele showing Topher around the office for the first time, she mentions that Rossum makes machines for medical brain scans, and that these machines take copies of every brain scanned and forward them to Rossum.
There is only one theory I came come up with to support your one of Boyd being good and trying to bring down the corporation.
It is to do with Clive 2.0; original Clive said they made a copy of him but took out some human elements like ambition.
In ‘epitath’ the motivation behind mass remote imprinting through the phoneline seems unclear, in fact it seems darn right illogical.
I felt after the attic that clive 2.0 might be in charge. if you remove ambition from a person you remove other things like their perspective of themselves in the world and even preservation.
If you look at Bennett and Topher you can behaps see parralells of who clive 2.0 is; a genius with deficient human and social concepts.
Both topher and betnnet really lack ambition beyond a concept of testing their own genius, both lack the ability to connect with people, and both for a large part lack a conscience; they don’t see they’re work in any moral context and do things to see if they can not think if they should. Adele i think said Rossum choose Topher because is morally ambiguous or corrupted. Although Topher has changes recently because does possess these human qualities, perhaps something Clive 2.0 doesn’t, like a sleeper vs an assassin; an assassin is an ass so difficult to reason with they called them it twice while a sleeper simple cannot be reasoned with or reach on any level.
Clive 2.0 would be the ideal mastermind behind a corporation which seems to push scientific research for the sack of scientific research.
Of course the fact their was another clive in the office completely defuncts my theory. Not a 100% but 80%; the first clive could have been an anomoly and the others have been perfected or the first was give ambition instead of taken away.
I for one did NOT see that happening at all, And once again thanx gossi for giving me that cryptic thought a couple of posts ago about all my questions being answered (*Might i add in the biggest way i could of never thought was possible). My heart broke when i saw Boyd in Caroline’s memories as THE BIG BAD. For some reason i thought Bennet was coming into the Dollhouse to terrorize Echo some more…but this blew my mind. As for Dr. Saunders? WTF! Doesnt that go against everything a doctor stands for? She packed heat and did u see Bennet’s face when she realized how much she adores Topher? Almost child-like. I nearly teared cuz all these revelations broke my heart. Next week needs to come now or never cuz i need to know all the answers ASAP
What about the “disruptor” that Topher created? It affected dolls for like 50 feet in all directions, and they had to use it on everyone in the Dollhouse after Alpha sabotaged the chair. Was Boyd not around when Topher used it? Or had he already modified it to only “fire” in one direction per Bennett’s suggestions?
Also, I loved Topher’s line to Bennett about having a crush on her even when he thought she was a guy. “This is way better.” Too funny!
no, I’m pretty sure Boyd was in the room when Topher tested the disruptor, and when it was going in all directions. which means he can’t be a doll, or maybe a different kind of doll (although I doubt that)
Dollhouse is GREAT! It sucks that Fox is Killing another one of Joss’s shows.
Joss needs to go to another network that will treat him and his shows with respect.
At least Joss had enough notice to be able create and ending to the series.
they always said that things aren’t what they seem (Adele said that initially) and with Jossverse we know that’s true. There is something about Boyd’s motivation to keep Echo and Caroline alive. He probably was the one who arranged the added material in the wipe when Echo and Paul were fighting. He had access to Whiskey for at least 3 weeks if he wanted to make her a sleeper. On her own Whiskey’s always hated Topher and the best way to hurt Topher is to kill Bennett. I hate it b/c I still see Fred. Even with that line about wanting more time. Thankfully we have 2 more episodes (tell me it’s 2) Half the time these shows end in the middle or after season one and we don’t get some kind of closure. Joss is a decent guy to give us some wonderful shows this year. Wondering what the next show will be. Maybe Firefly resurected (with the preacher and Wash).
I saw the top quote. She can kill you with her brain. Such a great line.
ok i have a theory, i rewatched the episode and i KNOW who the clyde 2.0 is? Its not Claire, she is in love with Boyd and she hates Topher. I think, and it fits into my other theory. I think, its Adelle and why? Clyde one is english. Check. He follows orders without question. Check. Notice how during the flashback that Adelle got a call on her cell phone sayin, “The head of Rossum wants to meet you.” Sending her up with the classic, Adelle smile. Notice how the office looks like Adelle’s? The liquor bottle, and how he asks Caroline if she wants some tea like Adelle asks the clients? All the clues are there, the elevator reaching her office in the same fashion. But i think boyd didnt take into the account of Adelle developing a conscience just like Clyde did. Even ep1 stuff fits into my theory, why is Caroline so mad at Adelle if everyone seems nice after she risks her neck. All i gotta say is wow…i would of never thought this out if i didnt re-watch the ep and notice the clues
adelle cant be a doll because she was in the room when topher used that device that puts them all unconscious.
Then who is the Clyde we saw in the office? he said he was clyde the second, just in the fifth body. and adelle definitely has ambition.
I saw the top quote. She can kill you with her brain. Such a great line. It’s from “Firefly.”
Every time I think I have the whole puzzle figured out, I’m wrong. I know that I’m not the sharpest watcher when it comes to picking up on subtle foreshadowing hints — for instance, I was one of the few who was shocked when Mellie turned out to be a doll in season one — but I still thought that the final reveal in “Getting Closer” was completely unexpected; I still can’t think of any hints that would have led me to think that Boyd was a bad guy.
I can’t wait for “The Hollow Men,” but at the same time the second season has gotten so damn good that I’m having this fear that I’m going to break down and cry at the end of “Epitaph Two” because I want it to continue so much.
Well played, “Dollhouse.”
finally epitaph 1 is coming into play….ITS SO AWESOME
I have to say, this show is a lot to take in. I too was shocked with the two *dramatic* moments. When Boyd stepped out from the shadows, I did gasp.
And, when Bennett was shot, I jumped back. That truly was a surprise.
I do like this show. However, I can see why it was cancelled. It’s a bit complicated and if you just happen to catch it without seeing any episode before, you can be really lost.
I don’t see how Dollhouse can have a happy ending. I think that the human race is doomed in the shows universe.
If I wrote the last episode, I’d somehow have the doomed future corrected and have Echo done away with. Caroline would be restored and with her waking up, saying, “Did I fall asleep?” Come on. The show has GOT to end with that line.
Sorry, but is anyone else feeling that they totally eliminated the history they established for Caroline in Season 1? What happened to the animal rights circle and her boyfriend? Wasn’t it on the trip with him that he was killed, and she was captured and turned into a doll?
no, she ran away from the hospital in the last flashback in that episode. rewatch it (1X07). she wasn’t captured by Rossum after her boyfriend was killed, it was later.
I thought the same way, until I remembered the episode Wrdo mentions. The way information was revealed in earlier episodes made it seem like she was captured immediately after her escape from the hospital, but I guess she was able to hide from them better than expected.
I think she may have been captured at that point, as they had the files on her. It doesn’t mean she got away. Adelle actually says in the flashbacks, something along the lines of “I thought we took care of her?”
I couldn’t have asked for a better third-to-last episode.
I’ll admit, I really didn’t like Dollhouse beyond the first half of the first season. The characters are a bit one dimentional and the dialogue is so simplistic. On top of that, while the plot was intriguing, it wasn’t enough to compensate for the other drawbacks.
However, if the whole series had been like the last four or five episodes with all sorts of awesome plot and interesting visuals, I would have made sure to watch it! It’s too bad that they pulled out all the punches when they know they are not going to continue because I don’t think it’d be cancelled if they had done this from the beginning.
Great episode of crazy Twists.
Some thoughts
Epitaph one hinted the apoaclpse happens
because the technolgy gets Into worse
hands.
I think Whisky was recruited by Boyd.November had to have a code to activate.When bennebt activated Perrin he killed anyone.
The executives at Rossum delt with the Clyde imprinted guys.Boyd ran things through him.
With the timeline of Carolane remember after her boyfriend was killed she escaped from hospital.It IS fairly obvious she went to work bringing them down.There may be more next week to explain how she went from there to the room with Adelle.
Personally, I don’t believe that Boyd in the end will prove to be evil. Where would that leave Clive Ambrose (the head of Rossum)?
Think of it this way: Boyd might have been evil up to the point where he betrayed Clyde. But in face of the projection’s for the world’s fate Clyde was making as a human computer, Boyd might have been turned around.
Yet, as time passed the corporation evolved and Boyd was ousted from control, leaving to him the only option of helping to bring Rossum and the dollhouse down by discovering immunization to the imprinting technology.
Caroline seems to have the necessary predisposition and so Boyd sends her to the Dollhouse in order to set things in motion, all the while keeping a low profile on his true intention.
This would also explain why Boyd in spite of being the co-founder of Rossum seems to fear the company’s reaction to him attempting to kill Clive Ambros.
If that’s the case, Dr. Saunders/Whiskey obviously was not programmed as a sleeper by Boyd but by someone inside Rossum. She might have wiped herself after the incident to prevent the sleeper from getting triggered and to forget having murdered (as seen in Epitaph One).
Thinking of it, this seems pretty conclusive.
Just a thought about Saunders and why I don’t think she’s a sleeper, but rather in cahoots with Boyd : Rewatch “Vows” and the scene between her and Topher, knowing now who the head of Rossem is; she also leaves a note for Boyd when she leaves saying “I’m running out of excuses”
Why would she kill Bennet ? 21 Mins into the last ep. – in a flashback – Whiskey is being treated by the late Dr. Saunders. Dom is telling Adelle that her office had been broken into and 2 files taken, one Bennets. Adelle says “Rumor has it the man at the top selected her himself”
To me implying that Bennet had also met Boyd as the head of the company, and that Saunders had to get rid of her before she could identify Boyd (They are never in a scene together)
Probably wrong, with all the twists, who knows ?
best suggestion I have seen yet as to why she did it
That’s…actually very likely. Hmm…
Arrgghh, I was doing fine until the twist at the end that made my head hurt. Wow doesn’t begin to cover it!
I’m a loyal Whedonite, thru and thru. I love the twists, though I kinda saw Bennett’s death coming (wasn’t sure if it was going to be in the 2nd to last or final episode.) When couples are happy, he likes to break them apart, no matter how short the happiness is. Boyd as Rossum, “Excellent!” {said as Mr. Burns.} I can only hope this series is resurrected like Firefly was w/ Serenity. Though some questions can be left unanswered – making room for comics & fanfics, etc. – it’d be nice to wrap up some of everything. Whedonite for life!
Did anyone notice the mannerism of Clive? He reminds me of Topher!! Could it be??
Dolly, now that you mention it… Clive did remind me of Topher. Hmm. If Topher turns out to be the mastermind behind it all… that’d be okay with me. But, in this case, I’d still want him dead and the doom of humanity saved.
I have several theories. 1) Caroline is a doll…or perhaps she is a dollified version of her real self (think the Sen.) created by Boyd. 2) Adelle is the person actually trying to bring down Rossum…She is sort of the wild card, and she will be crucial in what happens next. 3) Dr. Saunders killed Bennette because she hates Topher that badly, or 4) Bennette was also trying to bring down the house, and would have realized that “Caroline” was a doll…therefore needing to be shoot in front of Topher.
Oooh! I think I figured it out!
With the help of all these comments, of course… =)
1. Boyd is trying to fix things up and find a cure to resist imprinting to stop what he started.
2. Saunders got close to Boyd and is his love interest and hasn’t gotten killed yet…We know Joss likes to kill of couples. I think she has been imprinted by someone to keep a close watch on the Dollhouse and Boyd, and since Bennet is not in one scene with him, had to kill him so she wouldn’t realize what was going on.
3. Adelle knows about Boyd’s plan and is helping him. Boyd got her to get him to leave so he could get away from Claire (She wanted more time to spend with him…To watch him and kill him perhaps?) to be safe. He had to make it seem like he didn’t know who Claire was, so he wouldn’t get caught or killed by her. After all, we know he didn’t leave in the end, he stayed over at the Dollhouse to keep an eye on Echo and assure she remains alive and gets Caroline inside of her. There’s no way Boyd wanted to kill her or hurt her. He would’ve done it easily before…And if not, she kills him instantly next episode after she gets out of the chair anyway. I believe Caroline knows about the behind-the-scenes work Boyd is doing and joined the Dollhouse to help them prevent the apocalypse after being convinced by Boyd that this is what they want to do. Echo knows about what’s going in the Dollhouse, and Caroline knows that Boyd’s cause is the right one, so when they join, they will realize the entire plan, without any need for it to be explained in a cliche manner to the viewers, as we will see it too through their eyes…And, joining these two pieces (minds) was the only way of uncovering the plan, so it would be kept perfectly safe.
Also, I was thinking, on the side…What if Claire is behind it all? What if she’s just pretending to be imprinted, if she isn’t for real, or has been imprinted with the memories and personality of the person responsible for every trouble so far?
Oh, and as for Bennet being dead…They can always bring her back easily. In fact, this show is perfect for pulling this kind of thing off…They could just say that someone implanted a chip in her brain and she was transmitting information through to a server from her brain…And they can have her up-to-date with all her memories with Topher at the LA Dollhouse, brought back to life in another body…Or perhaps Rossum found a way to clone and grow individuals quickly to their desired age and imprint them (to make an army perhaps? Sounds plausible now with what’s been going on in the last season…), and thus bring her back? It would be so easy to pull of!
Anyway, I think Boyd’s just trying to fix everything up…Since we saw in Epitaph one that what happened there was what we feared…Maybe there’s another force behind this, and it’s not Boyd who’s the “mastermind” or the one responsible? What about Harding, for example? Or what if…What happened in Epitaph one was inside the mind-computer that is attic? What if what happened there wasn’t reality, but the nightmare Echo fled from in the attic?
In the end…The entire series could be a dream, ala Life on Mars (the US version) or a dream made up of people in the attic, who are the dolls (or who make up the entire cast)?
So…yeah, I go in too many directions when thinking. xD In the end, I don’t think I got it figured out that much…These are all just different theories.
That “…Or perhaps” on the topic of Bennet’s death is really supposed to be a “…And perhaps”.
I’m starting to think the Epitaph episodes are taking place at the same time as episode 12…And that Caroline/Echo destroys the Attic and everyone wakes up from the mainframe individually due to their effors in Epitaph 1 and 2…And they realize they’ve found Caroline after all!
http://www.spoilertv.com/2009/12/dollhouse-episode-212-hollow-men.html
Looks like Mellie dies…Look at the photo with Ballard looking surprised…it’s gotta be this!
I feel sorry for her if she dies… =(
We get the hint November dies. Rewatch Epitaph One. Priya says “which one?” when she’s told “You don’t want to end up like November!”
Dude…This is the most twisted show. Why oh why did it start out slow…I think if they let us get a glimpse of things to come and then went slow and built to this ratings would of been higher. I watch all the big sci-fi mystery shows and this one has made me chew my nails like no other. I just hope Joss decides to write this as a graphic novel someday like Angel so I can keep on enjoying it after fox terminates.
Ok..so maybe i might be wrong about Adelle being clive 2.0 but doent his office when he spoke to Caroline, look like hers? It cant be a coincidence. Lipman from the DC dollhouse had a different stylle in his office so it cant be a company thing…Another theory, it would b hillarious if Caroline turned out to be clive…think no ambition? Caroline said since the beginning that she doesnt have a set major because it eliminates everything else….sounds like no ambition to me.
my theory as to why whiskey/ dr Saunders killed bennet – simply to stop her bringing caroline back, if echo stops the end of the world then she would be number one in everyone’s eyes. bennet was the only who could bring caroline back, at that point topher had no idea.
also her hate of topher is why she didn’t just shoot bennet straight away, she waited it out, till he came back.
but it think boyd used whiskey – brainwashed her it’s the only way the group would welcome her back for the Epitaph episodes.
i do like the idea still that all that has happend is in the attic.
Don’t think this works. For one thing there is no reason to assume that Tohper didn’t know how to do it at that point. He does finish pretty quickly after Bennett dies.
The big problem with this theory though is that there is pretty compelling evidence that Boyd wants Caroline back or is at least ok with it. He could have prevented her from coming back by stopping the imprint after he breaks the neck of the Rossum thug, but he didn’t.